A New Model for Christian Higher Ed: The Hope Forward Story

Nicole: 00:00:00

Welcome to the Higher Ed Higher Purpose Podcast, a podcast designed for NACCAP members, prospective students, and their families.

Phil: 00:00:10

Hello, everyone. Welcome to another edition of the Higher Ed Higher Purpose Podcast. My name is Phil Cook. It's my privilege to serve as the president of nacap.

And we're very excited today to be featuring one of our NACCAP member institutions and an innovative program that they've launched in recent years. And so we're so pleased to have Nicole Dunteman with us. Nicole, thanks for being part of our podcast.

Nicole: 00:00:32

Oh, it's a delight. I'm so happy to be here.

Phil: 00:00:35

Well, let me do the formal introduction, then we'll get into the stuff that really matters. But, Nicole, alongside her colleagues, she helps students develop virtues of gratitude, generosity, and hope through integrated and applied learning.

She has a master's degree in College Student Affairs Leadership, and she's been working at Hope College ever since. She's passionate about removing barriers for student success and human flourishing in college and beyond.

Nicole currently serves as the Hope Forward Director at Hope College. Again, Nicole, thanks for joining us. We're so glad you're with us here today.

Nicole: 00:01:06

Thanks for having me. I'm really looking forward to this conversation.

Phil: 00:01:09

Well, we were talking before about you live in Michigan now, but you're a native Hoosier. You grew up in Indiana.

Nicole: 00:01:15

I did. Grew up in Indiana. Am currently rooting for the Pacers in the NBA Finals. Got to shout out them right now.

So, yeah, Indiana will always have a piece of my heart, but I have fallen in love with Michigan. It's beautiful. There's so much hiking and outdoors activities to do. So my husband and I love to call this place home.

Phil: 00:01:37

Excellent. All of Michigan is beautiful, but as our listeners know, we're in Indiana, at world headquarters of NatCap in Huntington, Indiana.

But glad to know that you've made a home in Michigan. And we have a series of questions we always get to. But in reading the introduction, Nicole, I'm just.

I'm finding myself connecting with the term human flourishing. I'm just asking you about that a little bit. So it's your word, but it sounds like it means more than that to you when.

When you say human flourishing, is that your why for why you're doing what you're doing now? Talk about human flourishing a little bit for our listeners.

Nicole: 00:02:11

Oh, absolutely. I mean, it's connected so much for me biblically, when God says, I came to give life and give it to the full.

And that's what I want to see for my students and then their communities, that they impact their Employment, their jobs, their peers, their networks. I mean if a student can be impacted and then go out and positively impact the world, wow, that's, that's what gets me out of bed every day.

Phil: 00:02:36

Well, and this is why we're here. This, it's a new model that HOPE is taking on. And so to, to see students be successful, of course for HOPE to be successful.

But for those that may not be familiar about the Hope Forward model, tell our listeners about it. How did it come about? What is Hope Forward?

Nicole: 00:02:52

Oh, I could talk all day. So Phil, if you need to cut me off, you cut me off whenever.

So Hope Forward was launched about six years ago when our president Matthew Scogan stepped in to presidency at Hope College. He came from a kind of just a different path to, to hire at an academia. He started, he's a hope grad, but started in government in D.C.

and then spent some time at the New York Stock Exchange on Wall street and then even was like a co founder of a boutique bank. And so he just had a different kind of understanding of the world and how we operate in it.

So when he stepped in as president, he, he just, he had a brand new idea for funding how to fund colleges. And it kind of came from a conversation that he had with as he would say, a friend.

They were at conversation over dinner and this friend said, no one should have to pay for Hope. No one should have to pay for hope. And we're called Hope College. Right?

And so for him, he took that as wow, I need to really sit with that and think about that. And he's like, you're right. I mean college is, I don't need to go on about it.

People know like the, the cost of a private liberal arts institution is continuing to skyrocket when we think about no one should have to pay for hope. That means we need to rethink our tuition model because right now across America it's tuition loans and debt is how you pay for a college.

And so he got creative with his education and his background and started to rethink and his love for Jesus. So started to really rethink what could this look like for students to not have to pay for hope.

And he landed on what we call Hope Forward, which is a generosity based model for funding college.

It's one way to think about it is a Give it Forward model or I guess some people call it Pay it Forward, but we like to call it Give it Forward at HOPE where students, they receive their tuition completely funded through the generosity of others.

And then in Turn these students sign a covenant or a commitment to give to Hope after graduation so that future students can have the same opportunity again. We call it a pay it forward or a give it forward model.

But another way to think about it is a crowdfunded model where your alumni base are funding your current students.

And then when your current students graduate, they then become the alumni base and they become the generous donors who get to propel this generosity forward.

Phil: 00:05:29

I love, I've read about it. I know about it. I had spoken with the admissions enrollment folks when, a couple of years ago when I started in my role.

But I don't remember the context of no one should have to pay for Hope. I love the idea because that's the idea. So it flows from your Christian heritage and Christian roots.

So this aligns perfectly with hope's mission and values as a Christian institution, right?

Nicole: 00:05:52

Oh, you got it. I mean, we have always been such a, since our founding, a Christian community that's rooted in generosity.

Even our, our founder, Reverend Van Ralty, started how HOPE started. He started a school. He started a school for children and he wanted the school to be focused on Christian character development.

And then right near the school, he also started an orphanage.

And what's crazy about this is that the school was funded by the church and then the orphanage had to shut down because the Holland community ended up adopting all of the children. So the orphanage shut down. I mean, this is just, it's, this is who we are. Hope and Holland have always been incredibly faithful and generous.

And so we just are living into who we already are.

And you know, our, our mission is we're a faith based institution that we, we want to prepare students for lives of leadership and service in a global society. And so, you know, this is embodied through HOPE Forward, where students are going out and living these lives of leadership and service.

But it's rooted in gratitude and it's rooted in generosity.

And it's also, it's because of our, of our rigorous academics that help us get there, our research opportunities, our deep Christian community, vibrant Christian community on campus. I mean, our chapel is packed and it's not required to attend chapel. And yet it's packed students standing room only.

And then our character formation efforts across campus. It's a combination of all of those that are helping us achieve Hope Forward together. But it's still, it's rooted in who we've always been.

Phil: 00:07:28

Excellent. We're learning about Hope Forward from Nicole Duntiman at Hope College. And Nicole. So I don't want to get too much in the weeds of this.

But there's got to be a process, right? So the main idea today is that people should know about this program and what you're doing is quite innovative. But are all students eligible?

What's the process? How can students become a part of this? Is there a process, an application? How does a student become a part.

Nicole: 00:07:52

Oh, that's great. I mean, because we're trying to rethink accessibility and affordability.

What I love about this model is that any student who is accepted to Hope College and has a 3.0 GPA or higher is eligible to apply. And so we do have an application process. It's a two step process.

The first is an inner or is, the first is an essay, a three part essay and the second part is an interview. And we have over 100 staff and faculty who are involved in the selection process. Our staff and faculty love this model.

They want to get involved whenever and wherever possible. And so they all raise their hands and jump on opportunities to interview prospective students.

And what we love about that is it's, it's the whole model is rooted in community, right? And so we, from the get go, we make it relational and very community focused.

And so these interviews are great ways for the prospective students to meet various staff and faculty that they may be otherwise wouldn't have met on a tour or when visiting. And then our staff and faculty get to really tell about hope, tell the story and then also meet the students.

We like to say that in the process we really look at heart of the student. We like to look at the potential for the student. We call Hope Forward a gift. We don't call it a scholarship.

It's not a scholarship based on merit or identity. Instead we're really looking at who a student is and the hope that they want to bring to the world and how a HOPE education would help them do that.

So that's what we love to gift to and again we call it a gift and our staff and faculty love to rally around it and we have a lot of interest from prospective students and their families.

Phil: 00:09:38

I also love that you said this in the earlier segment or the earlier answer, that it's not about, it's not pay it forward. So I'm not going to use that language. It's giving forward. That's a beautiful model. What's going on? I love the relationship aspect of this.

And while I'm not looking for, you know, names of students, you obviously are very involved in the process. I would imagine you have seen it impact students lives financially, personally, Spiritually are.

There are some, just some general ideas and stories that come to mind of how this is impacting students and helping change their lives and getting them to hope.

Nicole: 00:10:09

Absolutely. Oh, again, cut me off because I could go on for days, Phil. But we have about 120 students currently on this model with 20 recent graduates.

So this is the first time I get to boast about that, that we have graduates now of this program. They just graduated in May of 25, and so they're stepping out into the world as Hope Forward NOW alumni.

So we'll of course have stories and data from them in the coming years. But for now, what I get to talk about is the students, the current students that we have. And I have a.

I have the coolest job in the world, is what I say.

But I, as the Hope Forward program director, I have like a front row seat to the impact that Hope Forward is having on the lives of students and their families. So what I can tell you is that students are invested in this model.

You know, when you pitch a brand new idea, first you have to say, is there interest? Like, are there even students and their families who are willing to say, let's try it. Like, let's, let's be the first. Let's be the pioneers of this.

And we totally had interest.

We had students apply and get accepted and then they sign the covenant, which when I say that word, covenant, it's not a legal nor binding document that they're signing. It is rooted in relationship. It is a we, we truly, we have a handshake, right?

Phil: 00:11:27

It's.

Nicole: 00:11:28

There's.

They're signing this thing, but they handshake with the president because it's rooted in relationship where HOPE says, we're going to give you this education and in turn, we hope that you give it forward annually and generously financial commitment to HOPE after you graduate. But again, it's not legal, it's not binding. It's rooted in relationship and in your word. Right? And so students are invested in this model.

A first critique we got about this is a lot of folks said, if you give someone, if you just give someone something, aren't they going to squander it or take it for granted? And for that, I mean, at the core of that is like, do students have stake in their education if you just give it to them?

And wow, we have seen that the answer is absolutely yes, a resounding yes, they have stake in it. The students that are in this program, they came in at. We kind of compared GPAs.

They came in at an average, below average GPA compared to their peers on the tuition model. And after a few years in HOPE Forward, their GPA has spiked and risen above their peers.

So we're seeing that students are invested in their academics, they're attending classes, they're engaged, they're engaged on campus. So they're involved co curricularly. We're also seeing high retention rates.

I mean, HOPE already has an incredibly high first year retention rate, about 90% every year. And Hope Forward students, we're retaining them at 96,6%. And our students are saying that they feel belonging on campus.

I think some of this is rooted in like, I have students who tell me, like, man, someone believed enough in me to pay for my education.

So they're seeing, they're feeling seen, they're feeling valued, they're feeling known, which in this world that is so digital, that's countercultural. Right. And for them to say, I am known, I am loved, and I'm invested in. And so I'm investing, right?

I'm investing in my education, investing in these opportunities. So we're seeing that.

And the other part about this that I love, that I'm seeing with students is, you know, we at HOPE want to, we want our student body to reflect the kingdom of God. And so, and we want it to reflect like data points across the nation.

And so right now in hope forward, 50% of our students are students of color, 20% are first generation students, 30% are international students. And so our Hope Forward cohorts really do resemble what I would imagine the kingdom of God looking like.

And we'll do these moments, we have what's called Hope Forward prayer. It's Hope Forward style, where we just open the floor and it's like popcorn prayer. And we say pray in your heart language.

And in that room you'll have, we'll have four or five different languages prayed in that moment. And it's, it's beautiful.

It's a beautiful, I think, representation of, yeah, the kingdom of God and of who we want to be at Hope College and what we want to be about.

Phil: 00:14:24

Excellent. I'm, I'm the. My mind's going a lot of different ways, but I'm just, I'm hearing. And it's great to have initial data points.

I mean, there are a lot of people that I'm a, I'm a, I'm a qualitative guy, I'm a story. I'm a relationship person myself.

But when you start saying, look, we're retaining students at this level, we're graduating students at this level, there's some, there's some evidence based information that the program is working and I'm thrilled to hear that. And I love to hear the breakdown of the demographics. So congratulations on that. And what, what's going on? So you've graduated the first class.

So generally, what's the feel on campus? It's successful, it's going well. You've been innovative and being creative. You have some data that's coming forth.

But what's the general consensus on campus and the president or the alumni, what's the, what's the feel for how effective the program is being for hope and for your students?

Nicole: 00:15:13

Oh, I mean, when our president announced these data points at our end of the year town hall with all our staff and faculty, I mean there was hoots and hollers and claps. I mean there's just so much support on campus for this model.

And of course there are still questions from students, staff, faculty, families, prospective students, our donor base, of course. But that's, that's given. We're trying something new, we're trying something innovative. You're absolutely right. You named innovative creative.

We feel that. And so in anything new, there's constant learning. We are better because our constituents are asking good questions.

And you know, we're not ashamed to say we're in a pilot phase like we are piloting this. That's why we're starting small with cohorts of maybe 20 to 40 each year with 120 students total.

But we're intentionally starting small because we want to really learn from this and we're not ashamed to say what's working, what's not working, what we're learning. And our intention too is to be incredibly generous with this model and our findings.

Like we don't want to hoard this model and say we have a stake on this, no one else can do it. In fact, we would love for other schools to try something out, try this out, or try something similar.

And then let's be thought leaders and thought partners, collaborators in this as we learn together about how to do this, how to launch this and how to make it successful for our colleges, but also for our students.

Phil: 00:16:42

Well, you're saying that and those the next question was going to be, and I'm so glad you've raised it because we NACAP represents almost 200 Christian college universities all over the country, all over North America. And many it is, it is difficult. We have headwinds, we have challenges. But your comment that it is kingdom minded that is helping the industry.

I'm glad to hear that. But so what lessons are there for other institutions? What advice do you have?

Maybe it's just on the entrepreneurial, creative side, whatever that might be. Or maybe it's specifically about the Hope Ford program.

What takeaways are there specifically for our friends that are part of nacap or our colleagues in the industry that you might offer to them?

Nicole: 00:17:24

Oh, gosh, I would say the first. And I love that we're faithful friends all listening to this. And so.

But through biblical, go through a biblical lens, like, what does scripture say about money? What does scripture say about education? Who did Jesus teach? How did he teach? Like, go, let's start. Let's start there.

Let's start there and really root our institutions and Jesus's teachings. And I would say let's, let's not be afraid to try something new.

We had New York Times author Malcolm Gladwell visit our campus a few years ago, and he took a special interest in this new model and Hope Forward.

And so he came to visit and just totally intrigued by this model and ended up doing a podcast episode on his podcast Revisionist History about Hope Forward. It's called the Good Circle, and it's really well done. But he made this great comment that has just stuck with me.

He said, I was walking down 8th street, which is, if you haven't been downtown Holland, Michigan, it is just such a charming beachside town. And he was walking down 8th street and he's like, you know, there are so many different types of food on just this, like, small Michigan town.

There's sushi, you've got pizza, you've got bakeries, you got a brewery, you got an Irish pub. Like, there should be that many options of how to pay for college as there are restaurants on 8th Street. And I was like, absolutely, you're right.

And so when I think about, when we think about Christian colleges and why we exist, we exist for human, human flourishing, but to change the world through our graduates. Right? I mean, I guess people could argue why, what's their why? But at least our why is that right?

Like, we, we want to see kingdom impact across the nations because of our graduates. Like, our graduates going out and changing the world. And we get to do. We get to be a small piece of that as we're educators on our campus.

And so, you know, when we think about that's the why, then you think about who comes. And, you know, right now, cost is such a barrier for students.

And so for our, our Christian institutions listening, like, I would say the challenge is just be think we go to the basics. Who do we want to be on our college campuses? How, how are they getting there? Who's paying? When are they paying?

And are there new and different innovative ways to think about this and to get students changed on our campus because of the work we get to do every day?

Phil: 00:20:00

Excellent. Excellent. And I do recall the Malcolm Gladwell podcast and anytime you mention him, it's a good day. So that's a good thing. I'm a fan.

So appreciate your encouragement to our colleagues and our peers. Kingdom minded.

But we also share the higher ed Higher Purpose podcast to prospective students and families on the Find your Christian College website where we're getting thousands and thousands of visitors every year.

So if there's a family out there, Nicole, who has stumbled onto this podcast that you would say, let me make the case for Hope and why you should do this.

And in particular, as you tie it to the HOPE forward, maybe as we, as we close here today, what appeal or what advice do you have for prospective students and their families as they make the college choice, but also for them to consider hope?

Nicole: 00:20:47

Oh, well, I would say come visit. That's the first. That's, that's the, that's the first thing I would say to any prospective visit, prospective family or student.

Just, just come visit.

We have an incredible admissions team on our campus who would be so excited to welcome you to our campus, give you a tour, tell you who we're about, what we're about. But, but yeah, I would say you kind of said, what's the advice? And I would say for students, if you can really sit with what's your why?

What's your why for going to college? And does it align with the college's why and their mission and vision? So that's kind of the best advice.

And maybe that sounds too simple, but I think that's the advice I would give a prospective student and family. But, you know, we would love to have students visit campus. And you know, HOPE is, I said it before, but Hope, we have rigorous academics.

We take our academics very seriously.

We have incredible faculty on our campus who are so well trained and educated and yet have such big hearts and care so deeply for the individual student. And then we're also, we're rooted in community.

I mean, you ask any current student what their favorite part of hope is and they are going to say it's the community, right? It's the people. And that's what that means. The people. People of Hope are. They're just, it's unlike any community I've ever been a part of.

That's why I'm sticking around here in Michigan, Phil, and not moving back to Indiana to be in your family. I just, I love these people.

I love this place and, and I want, I want as many people as possible to come experience it and see if their why lines with our why. But yeah, we, we would love for you, if you're, if you don't want to visit, at least follow along.

I mean, we've got lots of podcasts and articles out there. In fact, our president has been writing for Forbes recently.

I mean, we've got, we've got plenty of information, abundance of information out there on who we are, what we do, why we do it, and so, you know, follow along. Also, Hope Edu Forward is the best way to stay in the loop about all things Hope Forward and then Hope Edu. Pretty simple for all things Hope College.

So, so yeah, follow along and come, come check us out. Especially maybe in the summer or fall time.

Phil: 00:23:07

Well, we're so glad that you've been with us, Nicole. So many takeaways from me, and one of them is nobody should have to pay for Hope.

Nicole: 00:23:13

That's right.

Phil: 00:23:14

And in this case, for these students that become a part of the Hope Forward program, they won't have to pay for the educational experience, but they'll have the chance to give it forward to Gifted Forward down the road. Nicole, the best to you and Hope and all the folks there.

Thanks for being a part of our podcast and thanks for all the work you're doing to serve the kingdom.

Nicole: 00:23:31

Thank you, Phil. Thanks for having me. Such a joy to meet you. Be sure to join us next time for the Higher Ed Higher Purpose podcast.